by Kim Knopp

Kim Knopp comes from the West Coast of the USA. He now lives in Toulouse, but he and his partner started their French life in a south-eastern suburb of Paris, not far from the Euro Disney site. His impressions provide an interesting comparison with those of John Harries-Harris, the Englishman who is buying the bar in a tiny Breton Village.

December,2002

Observations on French vs. American Attitudes

MY ARRIVAL

I arrived in France during the summer of 2000. With the help of my partner, I moved everything I own from Seattle, Washington, to Chelles, France; a suburb town about 15 miles east of Paris. 

If you move to France and plan to stay more than 3 months, you must first obtain a visa from a French consulate in the US. Once you are in France, you must then obtain a Carte de Séjour  (Residence Permit). This is the French equivalent of a US Green Card, but the procedure is totally different. For a start, there is no associated quota or lottery, just a lot of paperwork to gather, and lots of waiting periods. The French do believe in taking their time.

STREETWISE ATTITUDE

After living here for almost 3 years, and viewing the French daily life, I find it vastly different than in the US. It seems that there isn’t the same respect for rules as in the US. Pedestrian signals don’t seem to mean much here, as everyone just walks when and where they will. Whereas many American cities have strictly enforced pedestrian laws, the French ones don’t seem to.

The majority of the people here seem to have the attitude of  “everyone for themselves”. Simply, everyone here just minds their own business, not bothering with others. Don’t be surprised if you see people darting across streets, against the light, in front of cars, and walking between cars while they’re stopped at a light. The motorist may honk, but that’s about it.

There is rarely heard a friendly “Hello,” from strangers walking in the streets, etc., (except from children, and this is normal and accepted for them).  In America it’s normal to walk down the street, smile at someone , and say ‘hello’. (I told you Kim came from the West Coast. Ever tried that in New York or Detroit, any of you?).  Here that kind behavior is taken as an intrusion of one’s privacy, and they think it very strange.  “I don’t know you, so why are you saying hello to me?” 

There is the exception of store clerks greeting customers.  There is also in France, the custom for the store clerks to say “good-by”, and sometimes open the door personally to let you in or out. Another ‘nice’ difference between the US and France, is that almost always, in a restaurant, you will be greeted by the maitre d’ with a welcoming handshake, and taken to your table. 

In the malls, in the stores, or on the streets, people will walk right in front of you to look at something, reach for something, or simply to pass by.  This is normal, and not considered rude to the French.  Europeans don’t seem to have as much of a need for ‘personal space,’ as Americans do.   But people here will say “merci,” if you hold the door open for them. It would seem to an American that they purposely are trying to get in your way, but this is not the case.  I’ve had instances of people excusing themselves (Pardon; excusez-moi),if they accidentally bump into you.  We Americans can be, and are, rude too!

THE SMOKING ATTITUDE

‘No Smoking’ signs are sometimes ignored.  It’s strictly a personal attitude.  If someone wants to light up, he or she will, regardless of signs, even in elevators.  The people around them don’t bother to say that it’s not allowed, because they don’t want to intrude on personal choice, and become the ‘bad guy.’ Even if  this person is standing right under a sign next to a policeman, or security person, for example, they just seem to ‘look the other way.’  The Europeans have been known to be heavy smokers ever since the time of the two World Wars. Unlike in the US, there are very, very, few non-smoking places in France or the rest of Europe, except for public transportation, supermarkets and department stores. 

(I have to qualify this. Legally, all enclosed public places are now non-smoking areas, although there are still plenty of places where the law is ignored, e.g. small cafés and bars. However, all restaurants and cafeterias have designated smoking areas which in my experience, are generally properly used. Would readers like to post their own observations on the Noticeboard?)

In just the last 3 years or so, anti-smoking campaigns have, ever so slowly, started popping up on TV commercials, and a few billboards.  No one wants to be the one to tell a person he or she cannot smoke.  Many supermarchés have security personnel constantly scanning the aisles.  I must admit that I’ve seen people holding a ‘non-lit’ cigarette in their mouth while shopping to avoid haggling from the security people.  As soon as one foot is out the door, they’re puffing away.  Some restaurants have a very small area designated ‘non-smoking.’  But the separation between the smoking, and non-smoking areas have little effectiveness.

(Once again, not where I live or visit. In my experience, smoking zones in restaurants are smaller than non-smoking zones. However, since the anti-smoking laws arrived more recently in Europe than in the US, and particularly the US West Coast, there are still plenty of places where the ventilation system doesn’t extract the smoke effectively. I welcome observations from Freebooters visitors. Do you agree with Kim?)

In America, we are very non-smoking conscious, and have buildings and restaurants that reflect this; the Europeans again, feel that this is an invasion of there privacy and personal choice.

THE DOG ATTITUDE

Many Americans who visit France go home and remember the messy streets, always having to watch where they stepped.  C’est dommage; (that’s too bad), because, this problem could be solved with just a little bit more respect and care from the dog owners! There are no specific parks for dogs.  As a result, dogs go everywhere. There are leash laws, but rarely enforced.  The city workers are seen washing sidewalks on a daily basis.  But, before noon, one needs again to watch where they step.  It’s a daily occurrence to see many dogs of all shapes and sizes running free in the streets.  They obviously are very well fed.  Animal control vans are rare, and only seen if there has been a serious complaint, such as an attack or something similar.  The thousands who walk their dogs daily just stop when the dog stops.  It’s an automatic response.  The dog rules the master!  Unfortunately, he picks streets, gutters, or gardens to relieve himself.

In Chelles, I saw a few specially marked,  “sand boxes” with signs specifying that this is  “Pour les Chiens” (For Dogs).  But, they are very, very few and rarely used.  There is an area around one of the Paris suburbs where I heard that they are starting to provide plastic gloves and bags that can be used by the public to pick up after their dogs.  In the US, most people walking their dogs automatically carry gloves and bags to pick up after their pooch.

Just recently I heard of a new law in Paris beginning to fine those who don’t pick up after their pooch. It’s also a misconception that all French have cute little French poodles.  The majority are seen leading big German Shepherd, Labrador, and Retriever type dogs. Most dogs in America have big yards to romp around in.  The owners take pride, and try to always keep their yards clean.  I was always shoveling up dog poop in our backyard in California, when I was growing up.  (My mother always made sure that I knew it was a daily chore.)  In France, the majority  buy, and live in apartments.  Hence, they have to take, or they put, their dogs out.  Of course, those who own homes here, naturally take pride and keep their yards clean too.  But for the French, it’s normal, and accepted, to let their dogs out to run free in the streets.

It’s a known fact that the love for the dog is sacred in France. They always take their animals everywhere they go.  It’s not uncommon to see “Fifi” on a leash, or in the arms of their owner, in a department store, or even sitting next to their owner at a restaurant, (outside seating). Dogs used to be allowed inside restaurants, but not much anymore. You will see a dog sitting beside its owner inside a small cafe, but the larger restaurants have “No dogs allowed” signs.  

Unfortunately, in some small cafes, even with posted ‘no dogs allowed’ signs, there are still people there with their pooch. The management of these establishments don’t want to bother customers and lose business by intruding, so they just don’t bother.  Only if there are constant complaints by others is the only time something would be done.  Since the dog is considered a family member, no one would dream of telling them to wait outside.

(I’d really appreciate feedback on this – one of the reasons I chose to settle in France. Do you feel the same way as Kim does about dogs in restaurants?)

THE PARKING ATTITUDE

People park their cars wherever there is space, up on the curbs, sidewalks, etc.  Oh, there are parking spaces, but also tow away signs where people are supposedly not to park. Americans are ticketed or towed, for sure, if parking is done against the law.  I have seen police give tickets to cars for parking in a wrong space, or longer than the stated time.  I even saw one car, which was ticketed, just park in the middle of the street. I guess he just gave up looking for a space and stopped.  But ticketing cars doesn’t seem to be a daily ritual for police here, like it is in the US.  I haven’t  seen many  tow trucks, except when transporting a car from an accident or a breakdown.  It’s the public’s  responsibility to call if they think a car should be towed and why it’s a problem.  People here seem to wait for someone else to report problems.  They don’t want to become, as I stated before, ‘the bad guy’.

(Please tell me how you feel about this. Do you agree with Kim’s findings? Which kind of society do you prefer?)

THE PARIS ATTITUDE vs. THE TOULOUSE ATTITUDE

I have noticed a stark difference in people from different regions of France.  Tourists who just come to Paris go away thinking all French people are like Parisians.  Wrong!  It is also a misconception that all French speak English  This is France!  They speak French!  If American tourists go home thinking all French are rude snobs it’s because they didn’t take the time to learn a little about the language and customs.  If you go up to a clerk and right away say, in English, “Do you speak English?”, or “Can you help me?,” don’t be surprised at his negative reaction towards you.  As told in numerous travel books, if you try to learn just a little French, it will get you a long way.

The Toulousiens, as well as Parisians , for the most part, put up with all the tourists.  They can act the same way as Parisians do.  But Paris for sure, sees more tourists than Toulouse. 

The French from Toulouse seem to speak a bit more clearly, and slower.  In the US, people in different regions of the country have different accents.  The same is true for France. The Toulouse speech is softer and has more of a ‘singing’ tone than in Paris, and it's a bit easier to understand.  The French are very proud of their language.  If you show them that you’re trying to speak a little of their language, they will respect you.

Paris is a big city, like New York.  People move around quickly and talk fast, and seem to hurry you along, especially if you’re a tourist.  Toulouse is a lot smaller, and easier to get around.  The people of Toulouse generally seem to be nicer and a bit more laid back than in a huge metropolis like Paris.  Toulouse is, though, the 4th largest city in France, with one of the largest student populations

THE STUDENT ATTITUDE

Toulouse is a university town.. There are students everywhere.  I would guess the average age here during the school term, is between 18-25.  These people are like those in any university town; always in a hurry.   They run here and there, chatting and giggling with their friends, dashing in and out of shops, and stopping right in front of you to gawk at the latest fashions that they just discovered in a store window.

During the school year, the streets are crowded with kids, coming to and from their classes.  Toulouse has 6 universities!  Needless to say, it’s much more enjoyable to walk in the center of town on Sundays when everything is closed and school is not in session.

This city, like Paris and most everywhere else in France during July and August is far less crowded.. It’s annual vacation time for everyone, most businesses too.  When we first came here in July to look for our apartment, I noticed how calm, and non-crowded the streets were.

Boy. does that change in September when the students return.

Toulouse is an easy, walkable, town with many cute, small, winding, medieval cobblestone streets.  But it can be very crowded during the week, with the mixture of shoppers and students traversing from the different schools and shops in the downtown core.

Public transportation here is quite good.  With numerous buses going all over the area, and one subway line, it’s very efficient.  The one problem with the metro line is again with the people.  Since ‘closeness’ doesn’t seem to bother them, they always crowd in the middle of the cars.  They don’t seem to fan out through the car, but always bunch up in the middle.  The newer metro cars have hand rails all along them.. The older ones do not.  Hence, they stay in packed formation in the center.  The city is presently building a second metro line to be finished in about 4 years.

(Here’s another topic for discussion. How do you feel about personal space? Do you adjust your values when you are in a metropolis, or traveling on public commuter transport during peak periods?)

THE DRIVING ATTITUDE

The posted speed limit in all of France for the autoroute (freeway) is 130km/h (85mph) That’s fast enough, I think, but it’s a normal everyday  occurrence that cars exceed this limit. (I haven’t driven recently on the US West coast, but I can vouch for the fact that huge semi-trailer rigs cruise at 90mph on upstate New York freeways). The traffic at times, is horrendous. The French driving habits are not like US driving habits.  I believe the reason for the frequent accidents, and their driving habits, are because the French never have to renew their license.  Once they’ve obtained their drivers license, it’s theirs for life.  Each person's perception of ‘the rules of the road’, differs.  There is a Rules of the Road booklet, but I wonder if it’s looked at except when applying for that first license.  There is also a point system.  Each type of offense , if caught, has a specific number of point taken away.  The starting number of points are 12. When all the points are taken away, I believe it’s only then when your license is revoked.  The police only seem to be on the roads during high peak, holiday periods.  You hardly ever see a patrol car at any other time.  Traffic laws too, unfortunately, seem poorly enforced.

(Feedback, please. Do you agree, partly or wholly, with Kim? My observation is that there are plenty of older drivers who haven’t adapted to the demise of the ‘priorité à droite’ rule. At one time, traffic coming from the right had priority unless it was specifically overruled by a local street sign – there are many hair-raising stories of tractors pulling out in front of speeding cars on old French trunk roads. This is no longer the case, but old habits die hard.)

A FEW OTHER DIFFERENT ATTITUDES

For those of us who have the privilege of living here, the language does get easier to understand with time.  You hear it spoken every day on the TV or radio, and you see it written everywhere.  It’s only natural that you will pick up more and more words and phrases.  It does help if you’re able to take a French course too.

As I said before, all French are not Parisians.  I lived in the suburbs of Paris for over a year.  Now I live in the south of France  There is a difference.

France is a beautiful country with more than 1000 years of history. (I can't resist teasing Kim's US origins here. Even if you discount prehistoric artefacts like dolmens, menhirs and the Lascaux cave paintings, there are plenty of visitable sites that are nearer 2,000 years old. Stuff that's only 1,000 years old is still in use, but maybe that's what Kim meant. The Astérix comics relate to the Roman Empire of Julius Caesar's time, a generation after the birth of Christ.) The castle ruins, villages, chateaux, rivers, mountains, etc., that make up this country are numerous, and fascinating to visit.  Each region of France has its own specialty with foods, cheeses, customs, etc.

The French are not Americans. They don’t want to be, or act, like Americans.  I have given some insights on some different customs and attitudes.  But just because they differ from the American way of life, doesn’t mean that they are wrong.  It’s a totally different culture, and visitors coming here need to see and accept that. 

Believe me, it takes a lot of time and patience to learn and accept a different culture.  Culture shock is real, and you don’t get over it quickly.  You will see things quite differently, and be quick to judge them as wrong.  You don’t have to like or agree with the differences, but you need to accept them, or you'll be constantly thinking on the negative side.  The longer one stays in a  foreign country, the easier everyday life becomes.

I remember the first time I saw the public “squat toilet.”  These are normal in France and Europe.  You walk in the cubicle, and there is a ceramic basin on the floor with a hole, with a place to position your feet.  They can be flushed.  There are “normal” restrooms with toilets almost everywhere in France too.  These “squatters” are normally in parks, and highway rest stops. (One reason for providing what I always used to call an ‘Asian’ toilet at roadside stops without shops and fuel services is that they are self-cleaning, so more hygienic if they are not serviced several times a day.)

There are however, rest stops with just bushes.. So….that’s where you go! (In practice, often true, but they are meant to be just picnic spots).   You know where the word WC, (water closet) comes from?  Here, the toilet is in a totally enclosed, private, “closet.”  None of these half-door stalls with openings so wide you can easily see the toilet from the outside, like is the  norm in the US! 

(Would someone like to explain why US public cubicles have such short doors?  I assumed that it was to make it easy for attendants to notice if  someone collapsed in a cubicle, but maybe it’s a relic of the Industrial Revolution and supervisors checking up on workers exceeding allowable breaks….)  

You will find also in apartments and homes, the WC is a separate ‘closet’ with just the toilet. The bathroom with the wash basin is just next to it. (I would not expect to see a WC without any washbasin except in old apartment buildings). 

RELIGIOUS ATTITUDE

Had to go  to Lourdes, and see what all the fuss about this place was. Since this town is about 1½  hours  southwest of Toulouse, it is easy to get to . It is a beautiful place, set in the wonderful Pyrennees foothills.  The sad fact is that every street is lined with way too many souvenir shops.  I’ve never seen so many plastic bottles in all sizes in the shape of the Virgin Mary. There are plastic gallon jugs for sale with pictures of the Virgin Mary or St. Bernadette to fill with “the water” too.  Water spigots are neatly all in a row coming out of the rock so people can wash their hands and faces or fill their jugs. Yes, there is even an enclosed “bathing” pool. 

Hundreds of candles, small and gigantic, are for sale to put in these metal covered altars that look like ovens.  Some of the candles are so large, that they have to be handled by a man with heat gloves so he won’t get burned.  People sit or kneel, looking and praying, in front of the grotto where St. Bernadette supposedly saw the Virgin Mary. You can  go up to the walls of the grotto and touch the stone wall yourself.  Yes, of course I did it too.  It’s very smooth, from the millions who have passed by it for more than 200 years.  We were there on a Sunday afternoon, during the Fall, and it was not crowed at all.  

If you want to go and avoid the crowds, which multiply into the 10’s of 1000’s during the summer and religious festivals, do it in the off season.  People  really believe there are miracles here, but I found it to be very touristy and commercialized,  c’est dommage!  If you have the time, take a drive up into the Pyrennees after your visit…it will be worth it!

THE STRIKES ATTITUDE

I have learned that when the French say they will do something, they usually do it. Construction jobs, for example take time; but within a reasonable time, they are completed.  They’re not just debated about, over and over among politicians, like in some US states.  This is a county of strikes and protests.  People love to make themselves heard here. 

There seems to be a “season” for strikes too. For instance the SNCF, the train company of France, seems to always goes on strike at  certain times of the year. Strikes may last a day or two, or just a few hours.  If they are not happy about something, they let everyone know it. 

(The unions are quite clever at causing just enough disruption not to turn the public against them. I could travel between my home and my work in Paris using one or other of two suburban railway systems. If one was on strike, the other was always in operation).  

There are strikes  from the doctors, nurses, buses, metro, etc.  Almost every business that deals with the public goes on strike every year.  It’s not always about more money, but that’s usually  the main factor.  If there is violence on the buses or trains, they go on strike until there is more security. 

People here in Toulouse are still up in arms about the explosion at the AZF chemical plant.  They’ve closed the plant permanently, and now the politicians are struggling with what to do with it.  People are still wanting the government to pay for their home repairs due to the explosion.  The former workers at the plant are complaining because they lost their jobs.  And so it continues.

THE WORK ATTITUDE

There are many books on this topic, so I will give you my own summarization. Finding work is not impossible, but from what I have learned, unless you are able to speak the language fluently, and fully understand the French bureaucracy, it will be very difficult and frustrating.

For the normal American for example, who has degrees in business or other disciplines from US institutions, and tries to apply for a similar type of job here just using their degrees from the US, it will pretty difficult.  If you haven’t obtained, in France, an equivalent French degree or license for the type of work you’re looking for, it will be frustrating and disappointing.  There are many foreigners working here, yes, but the majority are contracted through firms in their own countries, getting paid by their own countries. 

THE SHOPPING ATTITUDE

Since arriving in France, I’ve found that the foods, and brands of foods are not the same here, as in the US, though there are many similarities. 

(Even where foods are manufactured by a subsidiary of a US conglomerate, ingredients will be different, to accommodate different regulations and national tastes).

One usually doesn’t go to the store and buy a loaf of bread for the week like people do in the US.  Oh, you can buy a loaf of “Harry’s American Bread.”  That is actually the brand name.  It’s very similar to your “Wonder Bread” back home in the US.  There are other packaged loaves on the shelves, but they are usually used for special occasions, such as toasted, topped with a slice of delicious foie gras.  The everyday ‘baguette’ is bought at the neighborhood boulangerie, or in the supermarché.  They are neatly presented, stacked in wicker baskets.  It’s worth  it to spend around 70 euro cents a day for fresh baked bread. The packaged, ‘French’ breads in the US, are a normal, freshly baked, everyday bread here.  And toasted….yummy!

Unfortunately, many of our ‘home’ recipes that we’ve been used to for years are hard to make the same way in France.  Canned soups, for example, are very, very few. Most all the soups you find are in ready-to-serve cartons, or the dehydrated, mix with water, kind.  There are hardly any ‘chunky’, vegetable, kinds. They are mostly pureed, and creamy soups.  They are good though.  For those hard to find kinds; such as the ever so popular Cream of Mushroom, there are a some ‘Intermarchés’ that carry a few imported British and American items. They are expensive though!

It’s fun to try to improvise your recipes with the ingredients that are available.

Once you’ve learned the French terms for foods and spices, shopping and cooking is a lot easier.  Baking soda, for example, used to be only available in the pharmacies as Bicarbonate de Soude (Bicarbonate of Soda). Now it’s found on a few store shelves.  Baking powder doesn’t come in cans like it comes in the US.  It comes in small packets of about 3 tablespoons each, labeled Levure Chimique (Rising powder)  Milk is found not cold, but in the shelves.  It’s sterilized, and packaged for long conservation.  One litre of milk can last for months before it’s opened.  You don’t find milk labeled “1% or 2% fat free” like in the US either.  It’s either whole or ‘demi-écrèmé.’(half-cream). 

(Kim’s comments about milk surprise me. All the French supermarkets I have used stock ‘lait frais pasteurisé’ as well as full cream, demi-écrèmé (2%) and écrèmé (fat-free) ‘lait stérilisé longue conservation’ UHT milk. But they are in different parts of the store, and the fresh milk supply often runs out in smaller stores . If you're more adventurous, you can also take your own container and buy unpasteurised TT milk straight from the farm in dairy-farming regions.)

When you shop for most items; they are not just labeled in French.  Usually, there are 4 to 5 languages on the packaging.  It’s difficult at times, to find the ‘French’ translation.  It’s usual to find a can of peas , or a carton of milk written not only in French, but also in German, Italian, Spanish, Greek, and sometimes Portuguese, and Dutch.  This is because of course, the same items are distributed all over Europe.

In the supermarkets, the people shop in the most curious way.  They stop, leave their cart in the middle of an aisle, and go search for an item in another aisle. This is normal.  Everyone does it.  Mothers push their baby carriages around, while another person with them pushes the shopping cart.  Or they fill the back end of the baby carriage with items.  I think France is the #1 country with the largest number of baby strollers.  I’ve never seen so many of them.  Mothers take their babies everywhere,  sometimes even the dog comes along too!  Trying to navigate your way around baby carriages can be quite nerve-wracking if you’re not used to it, especially if one or two of them are blocking aisles.

The clerks do not bag groceries. This is also another norm.  There are no ‘paper’ bags either. The bags used are small, plastic sacs. Most people bring their own bags, or push carts to put their groceries in.  Others will fuss, taking their time with pulling the plastic sacs apart, and filling lots of them. Sometimes the clerks will assist by pulling some bags apart, but not filling them.  The sacs can hold only a few items. 

The people take their time to count out their change, write their checks, and use their bankcards - regardless of how many people are in line behind them.  The others in line just seem to wait patiently, and accept it.  Oh, they may grumble at times, and search for a shorter line, but that’s it.  Most people seem never in a hurry.  Quick check lines are non-existent.  There are checkstands that say “10 items or less,” or “hand baskets only,” but that doesn’t mean faster.  And the checkers, well, if they’re having trouble scanning an item, or if there’s any other problem, they’ll phone for help to the main office, or even leave the stand, and the others in line, for how ever long it takes, to get the problem solved. 

(I’d be very interested to have more US opinions on the above. My impression is that US stores, even high-volume, low-margin ones like K-Mart or Walmart, operate with much lower turnover per unit of surface area than European ones. Any European store that operated with the tiny traffic volumes of a typical JC Penney or Sears would go bust in 6 months. Relative rents and operating costs must be much lower in the US. The big French stores installed point-of-sale systems which automated the filling-in of cheques, because these were the commonest way of paying, but a few years ago the government mandated the installation of machines which allowed the customer to use a micro-chipped  bank debit card and key in the PIN number. These often work with foreign credit cards, too. This speeded things up very effectively. )

There is a slogan for one of the big supermarché chains here that says, “Le Client C’est Sacré”, which means ‘The Client is Sacred’.  Interesting!

Well. There you have it. A West Coast American’s view of France, and a hint of the things that caused him the most culture shock. What do you think? Use the Notice Board. Tell us where you are from, then tell us what you found most different, what you liked most, and what you disliked most, when you visited France.

Have fun. 

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